In this episode, John Maher speaks with Brett Rogenski,
General Manager of Master Roofers, about the unique challenges of roofing
historic mill buildings across New England. Rogenski explains how these
massive, aging structures often require specialized assessments due to multiple
roofing layers, parapets, and modern rooftop mechanical systems. He details the
materials commonly used—such as EPDM and TPO—and how new technologies like
heat-welded seams and tapered insulation improve durability and energy
efficiency. The conversation covers maintaining historical aesthetics,
budgeting through regular inspections, and managing roof-mounted solar arrays.
Brett emphasizes proactive planning to avoid costly surprises and ensure
long-term roofing success for mill building owners.
John Maher: Hi, I am John Maher and I'm here today with Brett
Rogenski, general manager of Master Roofers, the most trusted roofing company
in New Hampshire for over 80 years. Today we're talking about commercial
roofing services for mill buildings. Welcome Brett.
Brett Rogenski: Thank you for having me today, John.
Commercial Roofing for Mill
Buildings
Maher: Sure. Brett, Master Roofers is up there in Manchester, New
Hampshire, and I know that you have a lot of old historic mill buildings in the
area, both in Manchester and in Concord and then down in Massachusetts in
places like Lowell and Lawrence. So lots of mill buildings in this area. What
are some of the unique structural characteristics that mill buildings have that
affect roofing decisions and installations?
Rogenski: Sure, that's a great question, John. Yeah, you're right,
we do have a lot of those structures here in New England and Master Roofers we
serve in New Hampshire and North Shore Massachusetts and Southern Maine. And
those are all areas that are dense with those sort of buildings. And the great
news is in the last couple of decades, it's become very popular as well to
repurpose those buildings, so reinvigorate them as opposed to just letting them
sit vacant or worse yet fall into disrepair.
So, it's unique. A lot of these are old buildings, they're
turn of the century buildings that used to be shoe factories and felt mills and
woolen mills, and I could go on forever, but those are some things that we see
pretty commonly. So, the typical is very often the brick, very often they have
wide span flat roofs and they also very often have parapets around them, little
wall around the outside of the top and that sort of thing, which those things
first you go, okay, so what?
But those are some of the structural characteristics that
then determine what we can do for roofing on those, it's obviously almost
always a re-roof, unless they ... well it's always a re-roof, the building was
existing. No one's putting up new mill buildings like that. So, the
characteristics are typically that they've probably been re-roofed over many
times, you're looking at a hundred-year-old commercial building, they probably
have multiple mediums as well.
So, that thing originally was probably tar and gravel,
which is exactly what it sounds like it was, tar and gravel. They put down
boards, usually something that was kind of like felt, let's call it that, and
then tar and gravel.
And that was very common for a long time. It was better
than the other option, which was not much. So, tar and gravel. And then
probably years later, after maybe a couple layers of tar and gravel, it may
have gotten an EPDM or rubber roof of some generation of rubber roofing. And so,
what that we do is we make sure that when we start engaging these buildings, we
do a core cut to see what is the decking of this building, how is this thing
made?
It's usually boards as opposed to what we would use now,
which is more of a, I don't know, consider it a plywood type product, and how
many layers of stuff do we have, because there's also load considerations to
have. We can't just keep piling stuff on the roof because eventually then the
roof will become the floor the hard way.
And so, we do what's called a core cut where we basically
take sample cuts in there and then we go back and seal them, obviously, to see,
hey, what is this thing made of? How many layers of roofing do we have? What do
we have for what is our substrate here? And then that determines, number one,
is this going to be a ripoff? Are we going to have to strip off the old roofing
or is this something that we can simply go over?
Depends how many layers there are, and depends on weight.
It also depends on what the customer's budget is and et cetera. But there are
code limits on how many times we can re-roof and that's because if you keep
stacking stuff up there, eventually it falls down.
Preserving the Historical
Integrity of a Building
Maher: And how do you balance the aspects of preserving the historical
integrity of an old mill building with modern roofing materials and techniques?
Or does it matter really in this case because it's just the roofing and the
public certainly is not usually seeing the roof of a mill building, so does the
historical nature of the building factor into it at all?
Rogenski: Typically, the historical nature of the building doesn't
factor into it much except for ... and think of some of these historic mill
buildings literally right across the river from you here in Manchester, as long
as we're not doing something that alters the outside appearance, like for
instance, from the road and that sort of thing. The other thing they typically
like is, so there's a lot of different roofing products that we can use, but
let's consider two of them, the two predominant ones to be EPDM, rubber, which
is, it comes in different colors, but typically gray and black are the most
common with black being by far the most common.
And then the other one would be TPO, thermoplastic olefin,
which is another far newer product, which has great purposes. Well, a lot of
times when you're flying on an airplane, especially down south, you see these
roofs that are bright white. You ever notice that, you're flying into Orlando
and you look down and there's all these roofs?
Well, that's probably a TPO roof and it's white because
they want that reflective quality. We don't really need that here in New
Hampshire. We aren't as sun affected. So, the great news is a lot of times what
they don't want is they don't want that bright white roof. The great news is
things like TPO we can get in multiple colors, we can get it in a gray, we can
get it in a black, we can get it in white.
There's also even, if you will, brown bronzes tones to it
as well. So what most people want in those historic structures is that our
roofing doesn't make it look weird, like you have a 1900 building with this
shiny white roof on it. As well as that our metalwork, for instance, if there's
parapets, we have to do metalwork on the outside of that, that our metalwork
looks historically appropriate. And a lot of that's built around color as well
as the design of the metalwork. They're usually not too picky about the
material as long as the aesthetic stays intact.
Materials for Roofing Mill
Buildings
Maher: Do some of the roofs on the outside use copper materials at all,
or was that generally not used in the mill building?
Rogenski: That generally wasn't used in the mill buildings, again,
because of costs. So, they were much more likely to be using ... I've seen it
in galvanized, a lot of lead was obviously used. We still use lead in roofing,
not the way it was used in the past for obvious reasons, we all know a lot more
about lead now than we used to. But we have a lot of great options in other
metals like aluminum and coloring that we can make it look and we can shape it
so that it's appropriate for whatever the visual need is for that building, and
it's in a long-lasting material.
We do find some that do require some copperwork, but
usually that's more around entryways and stuff where they're trying to have a
certain look around the entry. But you get up on a 400,000 square foot factory,
they probably weren't doing it in copper back then, just because even then it
was pricier than their other options.
Common Repair and Maintenance
Challenges for Mill Buildings
Maher: Okay. What are some of the common repair and maintenance
challenges that you face when you encounter large industrial style mill
buildings?
Rogenski: Sure. Well, because of the roofs, they are typically
very large buildings. Those roofs, it's about leaks and maintenance. So, the
more square feet of roof you have, the more opportunity you typically have for
leaks. Also, if all the mechanical systems are now on the roof of that, you got
to remember when this place was built, the mechanical systems weren't on the
roof, there was a water wheel driving it and there was no air conditioning, and
the heating system was a furnace in the basement that burned God knows what,
well hopefully crude oil or worse.
So, now all the mechanical systems have been modernized
and moved to the roof, so there's all these penetrations that weren't there
before. So, a lot of times the challenges are around leakage, either A, due to
the size of the roof, B, due to the proper installation of penetrations around
those mechanical needs. And then the other part that comes with that is just
the more of those mechanical systems that are up there, the more people are up
on that roof.
In the old days, you put down a roof and there wasn't much
going on up there except for the maintenance guy went out and made sure that
the gutters weren't clogged or the drains weren't clogged. And I don't know,
you probably went up there and maybe had a couple of cigarettes to get away
from the boss. And now your HVAC team, anything associated with heating,
cooling, and a lot of times even some of the electrical systems, are all
located up there.
You have maintenance and service workers going through
there, dropping, not intentionally, dropping screws, dropping this, dropping
that, walking all over the roof and next thing you know, someone who dropped a
couple of zip screws, the next guy along walks over them and then suddenly over
next to cooling unit six, there's a leak and that sort of thing. So, a lot of
it's that maintenance level and staying up on that. So, that's one of the
biggest challenges for folks is making sure that they stay on top of those
things, catching the little things before they get big.
Planning for Roofing Projects
Maher: Right. And so that leads into how can building owners and
managers proactively plan for and budget for roofing projects in mill
complexes?
Rogenski: Sure, sure. Great question. We definitely are advocates
of roof inspections. So, first of all, proper maintenance is always great. You
can have us, for instance, Master Roofers will contract with you to do
maintenance on a roof, whatever your desire is, once a year, four times a year,
a lot of times it's twice a year where they have us go up, make sure for
instance, a flat roof that the drains are properly cleared, if there's scuppers
on the outside where drains up, making sure that those are proper, looking for
problems.
Do we start seeing, for instance, flashing peeling away
somewhere or something like that? So, they have us once or twice a year go up,
do a survey, identify whatever problems there are, tell them what it would take
to fix those. So, that's how you keep those one great way to keep those big
problems or little problems from becoming big problems.
The other thing that you can do is by doing roof surveys
on a regular basis, you can start to understand what the lifespan of your roof
is. Am I five years away from needing a new roof? Am I 25 years away? And you
can start budgeting for those things. So for instance, we just worked with a
large manufacturer in our area and replaced their roof, it was, I don't know,
650 squares of roofing, which is a lot of roof.
Well, they had known by working with us from about five
years ago that that roof was in its last five to 10 years of lifespan through
doing roof surveys. So, they had started budgetarily to accrue and to plan on
that roof replacement so that when the time came, they were in a financial spot
to be able to do it, it didn't sneak up on anyone. And from a corporate point
of view, they could plan for it much better, both budgetarily and physically
because of the nature of what they do, they had to do some production line shut
down as well. So, they were able to plan and it wasn't disruptive to the
business financially or physically.
Maher: Right. The more that you know about what's coming up, the more
that you have the ability to plan for it ahead of time. Like you said, you just
don't want that last minute surprise where it's like all of a sudden it's
hundreds of thousands of dollars or something to replace a roof.
Rogenski: Yeah. No one wants to be the maintenance director that
has to walk up to the plant manager and say, "Hey, bad news, we've got to
drop a half a million dollars on a roof. When do we got to do it before
winter?" But when you can see that coming and literally accrue for those
dollars over the course of years, much less disruptive for everyone. And we
want to help with that.
People think that we probably like telling people that the
roof is end of life, we actually don't. And with our commercial customers, we
usually have a long-term relationship, that's what we like to have anyhow. And
we want them to be able to plan properly. It's a better way of doing business
for all of us.
Innovative Roofing Solutions
for Mill Buildings
Maher: Right, absolutely. Are there any innovative roofing solutions
that are suited for mill buildings to help improve maybe energy efficiency or
even just the overall longevity of a roof?
Rogenski: Sure. Absolutely. So, I had mentioned earlier TPO as a
roofing material, TPO, as I did mention, has some great properties for it as
far as being able to be sun reflective if you want, if that's a need in your
particular space and that sort of thing. So that's great.
Maher: So, is that similar to a rubber roof but it's white, is that
what you're saying?
Rogenski: Well, it comes in a variety of colors, but if you want
it to be sun reflective, yeah, you can get it in white and it helps radiate
back, a lot of that energy that would normally be absorbed by the roof is
simply radiated back out like that. And it's actually different. So EPDM
roofing, rubber roofing, is rolled out and adhered or mechanically fastened,
whatever it is. And then the seams of it are, for lack of a better word, let's
call it glued together, okay?
Maher: Okay.
Rogenski: I'm trying to make this in ways that people will
understand.
Maher: Sure.
Rogenski: TPO is different, TPO is like, think of it as plastic,
it's not plastic, but let's think of it as that. When we do that, we actually
have a heat welding robot that we put on there. There's parts of it that we do
by hand with heat welders, fine details, but the big long, so if I rolled out a
400-foot-long piece by 16-feet-wide piece of roofing, two of them next to each
other, now down that seam we actually heat weld that using a heat welding robot
that follows that seam and gives it a perfect well all the way down it. And
that's when we're done with the roof, with a TPO roof, it's not multiple pieces
that are glued together like EPDM rubber is, which is a tried and true and a
good system, the TPO is literally one continuous piece when we're done.
It is that roof has become physiologically one continuous
piece, not multiple pieces glued together, which is a really great solution.
You also talked about energy efficiency. When people re-roof these mill
buildings or any commercial building, a lot of times, especially if it's an
older building, there's absolutely the opportunity to add insulation. And a lot
of times they can also benefit from rebates or credits from their utility
provider by adding to that insulation.
So, when we recently did, it was an EPDM roof that we did
for someone and we also did it with, we added ISO insulation to that and we
took them from an R of about 15 in their roof which was when the roof was put
down 30 years ago, it was probably pretty normal, to an R30 up in their roof by
simply adding another layer of insulation, which is tapered also, we have it
made tapered properly. We come up with a whole plan for the roof to drive the
water towards the appropriate drains.
So, we're not just up there smacking down this foam
insulation, the insulation is actually built and made specifically for that
roof to taper and drive the water towards the appropriate drainage areas. So,
that customer not only got another roof that they won't have to worry about for
another 30 years hopefully, but they went from an R15 roof to an R30 roof at
the same time. And they're also gaining some credits back as well through their
utility provider.
Solar Arrays on Mill
Buildings
Maher: Do you know of any mill buildings that are installing solar
arrays on their roof in order to get some extra electricity for running the
building? And what kind of challenges would that create for a roofing company
like yourself in terms of installing or fixing a roof that has solar panels on
it?
Rogenski: Sure. So a lot of them, because a lot of these mill
buildings are big flat roofs, and it's a great place to assemble solar, whether
it's used to run the building, sell back to the grid or however they're doing
it. It's not uncommon, and what we really do is we work together, through the
building management we work together with their solar provider because we
probably need that stuff removed.
Sometimes we can actually work with the solar provider and
essentially jack it up, put our product underneath it, bring it back down. And
in those situations we really, depending on how it was installed, don't even
really need much input except for we want the solar company to come re-inspect
when we're done. So they go, yep, no problems here, you did a great job.
But there are other times, depending on the mounting
system, where we actually need to have the solar system removed for a period of
time, or moved at the very least, and then reinstalled. In those cases, we
asked them to work with the solar provider to do that, and if they don't have a
current relationship with whoever did that, we also had several solar providers
that we partner with that we're happy to refer them to and they can work
together to get that accomplished.
Maher: All right, that's great information, Brett. Thanks again for
speaking with me today.
Rogenski: My pleasure. Thank you for having me, John.
Maher: And for more information about Master Roofers, you can visit the
website at masterroofers.com or call (603) 623-4973.